Results: Less than 2. I feel SO much better. Almost have tears in my eyes (that's happening a lot lately).
Here's the bad news:
V, my new-mom co-worker who knows all the gory details of my babymaking story, was talking to me two days ago about how scared she is on nights when her husband is gone on work trips. She was saying how she calls him every 12 hours just so he knows she's alive and knows to get worried if she doesn't check in on schedule. "I know," I said, "I hate it when DH leaves, everything becomes a lot more scary. Like I get anxious walking the dogs by myself or taking out the trash. The dogs help a little of course but they're kinda small and probably not much of a deterrant."
"Oh," she responded blankly, condescendingly, "I didn't mind it so much before I had a kid. Now that I have a kid it's much worse." Like she couldn't understand what I would be worried about if I didn't have a kid to live for. Then she got more specific: "People out there can't have kids, no one is having kids, there's NO kids but everybody wants kids, so they steal them." I'm not sure what she was getting at but I have to think she was suggesting that infertiles are crazy baby-stealers. That anyone who can't get knocked up as easily as her (effectively her first month trying) is somehow irreparably damaged in the head and prone to felonious conduct. If this is what she meant I can't imagine a more offensive thing to say to someone who is having trouble. I absolutely can't imagine it. What is wrong with this person? Was she trying to make me feel better by saying "no one" is having kids? Like I'm part of a cast of thousands? And if so, then why would she imply that said cast was the psychologically disturbed, criminally inclined type?I still can't quite get over the shock. She's acted on so many occasions like she's trying to be a friend and at times I've been totally convinced. I've trusted her, that's why she knows my story. She's smart, too, in a lot of ways. She has about three OBGs in her immediate family so I know she has probably heard some hard stories. In fact I know she has. Is it possible to be smart and friendly and then be a complete nutjob bitch when it comes to sensitivity and social grace? Is it possible that despite her experience in this area and sophistocation in general she can know so little about how very very difficult it can be to become a parent? And how very very emotional and sensitive that process is?
Stupified, I said "well there are plenty of things to be worried about EVEN if you don't have kids...like being raped or killed." I thought I was pointing out the obvious at this point. I really just wanted her to leave.
V: "Oh no one would rape me, there are plenty of better looking, younger girls out there. [V is beautiful and she knows this so this comment came off as a pathetic and fake attempt at self-deprication. Not to mention offensively naiive.] And death is just like sleeping, I kinda don't mind that. I'm not afraid of death. I'm just afraid of leaving my kid." I HATE how she says kid. Probably because, as I've mentioned before, it's every third word in her vocabulary now, as natural as blinking and breathing - she just spews this kind of shit out all the time in front of me.
Me: "Yeah, see, I don't really want to die. There are just too many things I still want to do. So I'm afraid of dying even though I don't have kids," I explained. I really wanted her to leave at this point. Never to return. Why was I trying to rationalize with this person? And what was her problem exactly? Then she seemed to try to backpedal, as if she understood that I was getting offended but wasn't exactly sure why. And get this gem - she said: "Well it's much worse when you have a kid, you'll understand this someday...in the near future."
O. M. G. Back the eff off, will you? That's what I should have said. Instead I think I raised my eyebrows in disbelief and started to ignore her until she left. I have snapped at her before. I thought maybe she had gotten the hint then. But she doesn't get it. She's one of those people I would really have to hurt emotionally in order for her to leave me alone - but I have to work with her. And the thing (or one of the seventeen thousand things) that kills me about this is that I wouldn't even have to deal with this mess if things had just gone the way they were supposed to last year. I'd have my child. The conversation would have gone differently - "Oh yes, I know what you mean, V, it's so scary when you have a kid, I mean imagine the possibilities." But now, even when and if I do have a kid, the conversation will always go the way that it did. Because I have been through my own struggle and I have heard the struggles of others. I have had the privilege of sharing in the intimate details of the daily lives of people who struggle, as I do, but for so many different reasons. And I am forever changed by that. I will never be able to understand people like V. Never. And not only will I never understand it, I will never condone it.
After this conversation with V, I happened to be talking to my other new-mom co-worker, C. She also knows my story and while she didn't know about the above conversation with V, she does know that I've been frustrated with V's insensitivity about this subject in the past. C mentioned that she had not asked V to a particular happy hour we're having tonight.
Me: "That's fine with me," I said, "I'm not a fan right now."
C asked what V had done and I told her. C then told me about her own recent conversation with V:
C: "I told V to knock it off. We were talking about kids in front of [X co-worker who is a guy, not married and not a parent] and afterwards I mentioned to V that people without kids probably don't like it that much when we talk about kids so much in front them, like X...and Astrid."
C told me that V had responded "Oh no, I think Astrid wants to hear about kids, 'cause she's like moments away from having them herself. I think of her in the "pregnant" category. I think she likes to know what it's like, etc. etc."
C told her that she was wrong and that I didn't like hearing so much about kids and about the stresses of parenthood - which is true, but probably not for the reasons C conveyed. It wasn't clear to me that (a) C was articulating my feelings properly or that (b) V was receiving the message, but if it gets V to stop talking to me, that would be fantastic.
See, the thing is, I like kids. I don't mind hearing about other peoples' kids. I find the stories funny and cute and interesting - sometimes. The worst that usually happens when people are talking about kids is that I get bored. I don't really get hurt anymore. It only hurts when some idiot like V says something downright offensive. Like "just be glad you don't have another mouth to feed," or like the conversation about why I wasn't invited to V's lunch. Or telling me that she is more entitled to be afraid when she's alone and that everyone is out to get her kid. Whatever it is, whatever stresses you have as a parent, V, they are not as bad as losing your child, and then getting cancer. They are not as bad as staring at that big 11w space in your uterus on an ultrasound screen and realizing that there are no signs of life inside, followed by 56 trips to the lab in six months and four doses of chemo. And I had it easy, relatively speaking. She would never wish away her child, no matter how bad it gets. She wouldn't wish a childless existence on anyone. If she stopped to think about it, she would understand that. What kills me is that she doesn't stop to think. I hate that people like that are not only walking around in our lives, but so very prevalent.

30 comments:
Congrats on the continuing to remain low numbers.
V makes my skin crawl. URGH. I know how you have to keep your mouth shut but this woman is toxic and you need to stay away. First of all, the rape comment? How weird. Like only beautiful women are raped? Or what? WTF? Rape isn't about being sexy its about control and violence to demean a woman?!
Anyways, avoid her like thep lague she is toxic!
HOORAY for low betas! I'm so relieved for you.
How do you put up with her? I don't even work with her, and I want to smack her upside the head based on the stories you've written. What I don't understand is why women like her think that they are somehow above everyone else because they have a child: their life is more valuable, their child's life is more valuable, and they are somehow smarter in every way than us childless, infertile "crazies".
I agree with the previous commenter--avoid her like the plague.
Okay, I know this post is somewhat serious and please don't think I am trying to be insensitive but when you said that nutjob was suggesting "infertiles are crazy baby-stealers" I nearly peed myself laughing. Granted my emotions are effed-upped right now but that was funny.
In all seriousness, next time find a reason to walk away. Plain and simple, she's a clueless dolt who will never get it. People like her just don't.
She sounds like someone who feels inadequate in other parts of her life so she needs to overcompensate by pulling the mom card every other minute. Regardless, I don't like her one bit.
Girls, you are all so right. The rape comment was offensive on its own, she does seem to think her child validates her as a person and even makes her superior in that respect, and I do need to avoid her. I can tell you this conversation would have been a lot shorter had she not been in my office. Needless to say probably, she doesn't take hints.
MeAndBaby, this situation was so appalling that I couldn't really take it seriously. I wasn't really as hurt by it as I was amazed and angry that people could be so stupid. I didn't mean for the post to be overly serious, it's just an outrageous story. I am not surprised in the least that some of it came off comical. It was comical.
So happy you got a great beta and all looks good :)
As for V., you will never change people like her. My maid of honor used to brag about getting knocked up on her honeymoon when she knew that due to severe male factor, it took us 2 fresh IVF cycles and a frozen to have our son and this pregnancy now.
Do your best to avoid her is my thought. I know it is hard, but people can be so DUMB and hurtful sometimes and they will always think they are "right" just to prove a point.
Kelley
V makes my skin crawl, too. I think that you need to put a little space between you and her. I so hear you on the part about people thinking that having a child validates them, and that they are somehow more important to you. I just wrote a blog post yesterday regarding our new emergency plan at work, and that because I have no kids, I have to be the one to stick around until every child has left (I am a teacher). It is as if people think that I am not as valuable because I don't have kids. I hated it how V made it sound like your life is only valuable if you have a child.
I am glad that you have C right now. It really kills me when insensitive people like V get to have a child so easily.
oh my god that is ridiculous, there are people out there who STEAL kids, gimmie a break! i mean i know that children get kidnapped but i don't think it's usually by random strangers who can't have kids of their own! sorry you have to hear her talk about how much more she values her life now that she has KIDS.
Ugh. That's terrible. I remember reading about V's lunch last ICLW, and I'm sorry to see that she hasn't gotten any better. People who haven't been through it are difficult to talk to. They ask stupid questions, even if they think they're trying to help. I wish I could replace V with some fellow-infertile so you didn't have to deal with it!
(((hugs)))
Happy ICLW!
I hate insensitive people. THEY SUCK!
Stopping by for an ICLW visit...
No. 2: the unfair struggle (mfi, speedskating, nanowrimo)
I think V just made my head explode.
The rape comment proves that she is clueless and insensitive on a number of levels.
I don't even know what to say, she was so unbelievable.
If it were me, I would definitely have to take a step (or twenty) back from her. And, you know? She may get her feelings hurt, but YOUR feelings are important, too. She is being so dense that your being polite isn't getting the point across.
I am stunned by her stupidity.
(ICLW)
Jeewhiz Louise. That woman is a complete moron. I wouldn't want to meet her even if I had a chance. How unsensitive of her to talk like that to you.
The rape comment is so weird. Anyone can get raped, it has nothing to do with beauty and age. That's why it's scary, it's all about control. With or without a kid, every woman (yes, mommies are women too and that's something she should wrap her head around) should fear being raped and/or murdered and be careful.
This woman is really not supportive . And anyway, baby or not, she should understand that people don't want to hear every little detail about everything. It is boring.
I'm so sorry you had to hear the comments she made. I know I would be so angry and so sad. Bouuuh her !! Bouuuuuh V !!
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Too many people have speak before thinking syndrome! Your V sounds like she has no idea what it's like to be in any other place than the one she's in.
I hope that your other co-worker managed to get her to hold her tongue a bit - even if she doesn't get why properly!
ICLW
I don't know V and yet I do.. so many versions of her. I still can't believe the moronic things people say just because they have kids. I remember last year a coworker saying that she was furious that her husband couldn't get off of work on Christmas eve because another guy who doesn't even have kids requested off. I remember thinking how rude of a statement that was. So you mean unless you have kids you should have to work every holiday?? I don't think so.
Keep in mind that the things she says are ridiculous and that every person matters just as much as the next.. kids or no kids!
Oh man, i just don't know what to say that hasn't been said already above. People like V will never, ever change, never realize what their doing is spewing their own insecurities. Do stay far away she is more than toxic, she is a poster child for a complete loser. (making L hand sign on forehead now) Happy ICLW.
Wow, she's dense. I think people mean well sometimes, but just have no clue how to actually empathize and then filter the crap coming out of their mouths. I also smirk that she calls her hubby every twelve hours when he's gone which isn't nice of me at all. But with a husband who deploys and is gone for twelve months at a time...I really can't help it! {evil grin} Happy ICLW
Ugh I felt sooo frustrated for you just reading about V. How dim whited can she be? She is definetely not worth confiding to anymore, or ever. At least C get it a bit but still.
I'm so glad that your betas are down! :)
I don't think I can say anything about V that hasn't already been said, except... with friends like her who needs enemies.
Hang in there!
Aw hun agreeing with the others sounds a little odd.. stealing kids... crazy! I hate being on my own too and I don't have kids either..
Good grief! Your coworker sounds very insensitive, and her comments are just insane. I'm sorry that you have to deal with her.
ICLW
V sucks! These comments hurt! I started saying things back to people when they say insensitive stuff like that, because even if it doesn't stop the comments, it makes me feel better. Sorry she is such a bee-yatch.
Sending hugs - ICLW.
Wow! People's insensitivity really irks me! If I were there I probably would have slapped her for you!
Oh honey, I am so sorry. What an idiot. I will *never* understand people like that. Good for you for not backing down to her. She probably still doesn't get it, but people like her never will - and at least you tried. I normally don't think of what I should have said until after the fact :)
And your right, your/our responses to conversation will forever be changed because of our experiences, regardless of if/when we have living children one day.
Wow, V sounds like she desperately needs a filter.
Sorry you had to deal with V. She sounds like she has "verbal diarrhea" as my hubby likes to say. I agree with the others and find a reason to leave the next time a conversation like this is imminent.
Glad to hear your numbers are low (or less than 2!).
Wow.. your "friend" sounds like a big pain in the ass. I also wonder why people like them exist and how someone can be so clueless.
By the way, on a totally unrelated note, I love your blog pet! I have one juse like it. I think I got the idea from you last ICLW.
Take care and good luck this cycle...
Robin
Stopping by from IComLeavWe, I think you sharing your feeling is a good way to educate most people about being aware of their words. However, there are probably some people who are so unaware of anybody but themselves that they will never change.
V is NOT your friend and not even someone you should consider an aquantaince or associate with, no matter how nice she might seem at times. I used to work with a guy like her, and she sounds a lot like him. He would come in and try to rumple your feathers just to be an @$$. It finally got to the point where I would just sit there and let him say his piece, all the while looking at him like he was a moron (the guy had a PhD). I wouldn't say a word the whole time. When he got done yapping or if he asked anything that required a response on my part I would always say something along the lines of, "I have nothing to say. I've got to get back to work now. Bye bye!" Eventually he left me alone. We don't need peoplel like that in our lives. If she doesn't get the hint through your conversations, help her get the hint through lack of it.
V would last 2 seconds in my life.
Wow. She is really self-absorbed. My DH travels and I am a single mom of twin toddlers 4 days a week. I shudder to think of what would happen if her DH started traveling.
I feel bad for her DH. What if he is in a meeting? Does she "page" him on the Crackberry?
I am so sorry for insensitive coworkers. I think EVERYONE in life who is fertile basically takes their fertility for granted.. They can't help it, somehow.
Until it happens to them...
ICLW... Happy Thanksgiving hun...
Congratulations on the low numbers!
ICLW
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